Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

Trouble with file from commons

I have uploaded on commons a djvu file. It looks fine over there, but here and on wp the file is registered as being 0x0 (not as empty, though), and trying to link it just gives a link, not the file. Am I the only one having this problem, and can someone tell me how to fix it? — Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 19:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a problem with the file. Do you want me to create the Index: for you? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind, apparently now it works. When I tried to create the index yesterday the pagelist did not work because the file was 0x0 pixels. I can take care of the index, thanks. Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 06:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333: I had the same exact problem with an Index yesterday: File:The Plutocrat (1927).pdf. It is extremely weird, and I believe it's an issue on Commons' end. I was able to fix it in a few minutes, though. SnowyCinema (talk) 06:42, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

What did you do? Or did it just fix itself? Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 07:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333: So here's exactly what happened. I uploaded the file (revision 1) and it appeared as 0x0 just like you described, and the Index page's pagelist threw an error that I can't remember now. So, what I did was I uploaded another version of the same PDF, just directly taken from IA instead of modified by me in a certain way, and then uploaded that with chunk upload (revision 2). It initially seemed to be a working file, but then I deleted and recreated the Index again, to find out that this revision was now broken. So I reverted to the previous revision (revision 1) as revision 3, and somehow that worked.

TLDR: Revision 1 was broken and when I uploaded revision 2, that revision appeared to work at first. But then it reversed out of nowhere, to where revision 1 was working now and revision 2 magically broke in its place. . . . If this is confusing to you, it's exactly as confusing to me so don't worry. I have no idea what the issue was. ☹️ SnowyCinema (talk) 07:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

The error was "Invalid interval" (at least for me). What I think is that the file got broken during some sort of transfer from commons to here (since it was also broken on wp). On top of being 0 x 0 pixels, Invalid interval probably meant it was 0 pages long (even an empty pagelist got an error). The file was still registered as being 1.something MBs long (here, on commons, and wp). I do not think it was an issue with the file I uploaded, as on commons everything looked good. That's what I know. I also had a vague suspicion of it being linked to the server switch on wednesday, but it might have nothing to do with it. Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 07:29, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Servers and backends and deployment are quite finicky, and there are a million mysterious things that can go wrong all of a sudden. It's hard to really say exactly what happened without talking to someone who has the keys so to speak. Our global multisite system is bound to be quite complex on the backend, I'll say that much... SnowyCinema (talk) 07:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@SnowyCinema It's just happened again with File:The Poems of Sir Thomas Wiat, volume 2.djvu. If this becomes a recurring problem, we should maybe ask about it to the commons people. Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 09:58, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333:: Hi, I've "purge" the caches of the file in Commons and of the Index, and it seems to have fixed the issue. M-le-mot-dit (talk) 10:15, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I tried purging the caches on thursday, and it didn't help. I guess this just fixes itself with time. Alien333 (what I did — why I did it wrong) 13:04, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333@Beeswaxcandle@M-le-mot-dit@SnowyCinema I have experienced (and reported) the same issue. Although the problem sometimes seems to fix itself, I have a number of cases where it has not (>6 months, which I assume means never), and a number of cases where random pages in an otherwise functioning PDF are completely unreadable on WS. I've basically given up uploading PDF files (even though I have paid-for PDF editing software - Foxit) and default to DJVU. Converting PDF's to DJVU with 'Pdf 2 Djvu Converter' generally works OK. Chrisguise (talk) 13:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I just had this same problem with Index:Florula Mortolensis.djvu, where the pagelist is broken and the file appears as 0x0 on WS (but works fine on commons. I used the IA upload tool.) Purging the caches didn't help, but hopefully it fixes itself, as it seems to. Cremastra (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

When I had the problem (here) I purged the cache on Commons first, then on Wikisource, and that seemed to work. Arcorann (talk) 08:16, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, after having the problem with Index:Poems Coolidge.djvu, clearing the cache on commons and then here fixed it. Maybe doing it in the other order doesn't work.

@Chrisguise: I'd be curious if you could try to do this on those indexes you mentioned that did not fix themselves, to see if that method works. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 19:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alien333@Arcorann@Beeswaxcandle@Cremastra@M-le-mot-ditI know I've seen something on here about how to purge Commons files (you add something to the address), but I can't find it. Could someone remind me please. Chrisguise (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I just use the "purge clock" gadget, but I think it would be with something like "commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=[page title]&action=purge" — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 07:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I hadn't previously delved around the gadgets section on Commons. Doing the two purges has fixed one of my problem files (a DJVU, unusually). I'll try it on a PDF. Chrisguise (talk) 08:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

@Chrisguise: In my case, I've first purge the Common file, then the Wikisource index.--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 08:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, my first attempt with this approach worked. Need to dig out some more of my problem files to try. Chrisguise (talk) 08:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I looked around and the people in fr had the same issue, and found the same solution (there among others), purging on Commons. It's not sure, though, if it is also needed to purge here. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 14:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Page moves, etc.

Over time I've made a number of requests for moves in support of fixing scans with missing pages, etc. These used to be dealt with promptly but more recently the response has been quite slow or they are still waiting (people are doubtless busy). I came across User:Inductiveload/Scripts/Page shifter.py recently. If someone can explain to me how to run this script where it is, or how to incorporate it and run it from my .js (if that's what's required), I'll happily do the fixes myself. Thanks, Chrisguise (talk) 13:47, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Chrisguise: If you have to ask I generally don't recommend you try to run this yourself. The script you link is a pywikibot script, and requires the technical chops to operate 1) in a *nix command-line environment, and 2) a big complex bot framework. It's not something you run on-wiki or in your browser, and it isn't really an interactive tool. Page moves due to updated source files in an existing index are especially challenging because there are so many factors you have to take into account to avoid messing stuff up.

Page moves and a few related tasks have indeed slowed to a relative crawl lately. Inductiveload isn't active any more, and I am too busy IRL to be able to pick up the slack (and usually my head is too fried to take on anything complicated), and we used to take care of the bulk of these. If you have any such tasks that are especially bad in blocking your progress then please feel free to try bugging me on my talk page and I'll try to prioritise them.

PS. If you want to make it require fewer brain cycles to run a page move request like that, specifying the necessary moves in the way the software expects (vs. what's logical for a human being) can help. The moves are specified as "page range to be moved" (123-345) and "offset" (+4, or -3, or...). And the destination page cannot exist, so when it's not a single unified shift you'll need to give these in batches with, typically, the last pages in the first batch: that way you make room for the later page moves. This way of thinking about it is really non-intuitive for humans, but it's what the computer requires, and it's often what takes the most time and effort when doing bulk page moves. Xover (talk) 14:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I was clearly led astray by the 'Anyone can run this script' comment on User:Inductiveload/Requests/Move pages or indexes; it sounds as if 'anyone (with a computer science degree) can run this script' would be nearer the mark. Chrisguise (talk) 14:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a bit more that than plain "anyone". Don't get me wrong, it's not rocket science, but the "computer geek" factor is pretty high. Xover (talk) 14:50, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Index page not displaying any pages

I recently created this index page - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Methods_of_Operating_the_Comptometer_(1895).djvu - which is just giving me an Error: Invalid interval rather than displaying any pages. The djvu file itself looks fine - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Methods_of_Operating_the_Comptometer_(1895).djvu

Any clues on what I should do to get the index page working? Qq1122qq (talk) 14:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

As always, posting about seems to have fixed the problem :). Looks like I was having the same problem as many of the people in an earlier discussion. In the same way as discussed there, I tried purging everything possible multiple times, and after about half an hour of nothing happening the pages suddenly appeared! Qq1122qq (talk) 14:05, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Had you also purged the file on Commons ? (For the sake of understanding if it actually fixes it) — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 16:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes - I purged and hard purged (not sure of the difference) everything I could, and crossed my fingers. I imagine there's some very slow running process buried somewhere which only runs intermittently. I've never had this issue with .PDF files so I wonder if it's a .DJVU only issue? Qq1122qq (talk) 18:42, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think so, since Chrisguise reported that he had mostly had that problem with PDF's.

But had you purged it on commons, specifically? asking because there there is no easily accessible "purge" button like here, needs to be done through a gadget or some other things, and you could have missed it. Sorry for insisting, but it looked like we finally had a solution, and I want to be sure before abandoning it. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 08:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

I purged on Commons, then purged in WS, and the page fixed itself. This has also fixed 3 more projects I've created in the last few days.

I was given the magic incantation to purge a file on Commons via someone helpful on Discord - if you want for example to purge File:Methods_of_Operating_the_Comptometer_(1895).djvu

then go to the URL https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=File:Methods_of_Operating_the_Comptometer_(1895).djvu&action=purge

and it will give you the option to purge the cache. Qq1122qq (talk) 23:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@Qq1122qq: If you go to the Gadgets section of your Preferences, down under the heading "Interface", you'll find a dedicated "Purge" Gadget that does just this for you (and which exists due to this kind of problem). I see the description talks about a purge "tab", but that's just a holdover from when Monobook was the default skin. It really appears in either the sidebar or the Tools menu, depending on which skin you're using. Xover (talk) 05:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

(side note: we're still talking in the "old discussion") — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 18:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about that - I find the threaded wiki-style comment pages like this one very hard to parse so I had no idea it was still a live discussion. Qq1122qq (talk) 18:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

No problem, and we are having a discussion about simplifying the structure at WS:S#Simplify_Scriptorium_page_structure, that ironically appears to have been lost in the flow too. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 09:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Help with getting clickable pages for Index:The Intense Mississippi Tornadoes of March 24, 2023

There is about 40-ish pages that I still need to upload for the document, but I can’t get the clickable pages to appear on the Index page and I keep seeing “Error: No such file” when I try to fix that. Can someone get the 40-pages red linked down there? WeatherWriter (talk) 16:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: Why are you uploading this as individual image files? Proofread Page is designed to work with multi-page media formats like PDF and DjVu. Xover (talk) 16:28, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Because it isn’t a PDF document, but rather a StoryMap. NOAA is weird and doesn’t like to create standard PDF-style documents. WeatherWriter (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: If you have the images and can throw them up on Google Drive or something I can probably make you a DjVu of them. Xover (talk) 18:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Invalid interval error on creation of Index:Yiddish Tales.djvu

Can someone please help to correct this linking error? I am unfamiliar with it. It is much appreciated. — ineuw (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

With my usual attentiveness, I noticed that others posted the same issue. I will wait for the solution. — ineuw (talk) 16:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Ineuw: It's an ongoing flakiness in MediaWiki and the integration between Commons and other projects. This file should be fixed now through black magic and dread incantations to the technology deities (or something to that effect). Xover (talk) 17:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

It displays correctly for me after a hard purge. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. After posting, I remembered that this is happening everywhere on the web. Systems and software are constantly being updated. I gained patience, understanding, and acceptance. In the meanwhile, I am sure to find something else to do. — ineuw (talk) 12:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Lo and behold, I posted before looking. — ineuw (talk) 12:14, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Unspaced page end for references

Hello all,

While transcluding Index:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu, there are a few places where a ref-follow has no text on the page where the reference tags are placed, e.g. Page:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu/62 and Page:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu/63. For the moment, so that the <ref></ref> tags on the former page are not empty, I have used noinclude within the ref tags, which leads to a space being included just before the first word in the reference text, once transcluded (see the last reference of Early Western Travels, 1748-1846/Volume 1/Croghan to the Governor of Pennsylvania for an example; and yes, I realise this space is not the end of the world, but it would be nice to remove). Thus, my question, how troublesome would it be to convert the {{upe}} template to something that would work in references (or to allow hws/hwe to have an empty first parameter), unless anyone has other simple suggestions for how to deal with this?

I also wasn't sure if I should modify it myself, but when looking through the help on footnotes, I read the following Other parts of the footnote should use the "follow" parameter with the same name. The position of this text does not matter to the footnote but adding it to the bottom of the page, where the footnote would normally be, is the most obvious position. Make sure that it is a part of the page that will be transcluded with the rest of the footnote: ie. not in the header or footer of the Page, not in tags, and—if sectional transclusion is being used—in the same section as the rest of the footnote (so all parts are transcluded into the same page in the main namespace). While perhaps correct that the position of the ref-follow does not matter to the footnote, unless I have misinterpreted something, a ref-follow placed at the end of a page with paragraphs created in the conventional sense (i.e. pressing enter), will incorrectly insert a line break at the start of the transcluded page. Thus, ref-follows should be placed at the top of the page body section (which also helps with sectional texts, as the ref-follow would typically be transcluded with the first section on the page).

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I just tried using a nop, but that didn't work. The solution I would use is to bring the footnotes back from /63 and leave that page blank. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

noinclude and includeonly tags don't work in a ref. I've replaced it by a comment.--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 08:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Beeswaxcandle: this is just exactly a case for a pragmatic solution rather than chasing a "perfect" one. Move the contents of the ref to the page where it's referenced, and leave a comment on both pages to explain what you've done (<!-- comment here -->). Xover (talk) 09:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think you should worry that much about the leading space (I don't think it copies anyway). If you're really insistent on getting rid of it, you can put {{nop}} into the {{hws}} and {{hwe}} templates; if you put e.g. {{hwe|{{nop}}|Governor|hyph=}} on the first page and {{hws|Governor|Governor|hyph=}} on the second page, the text should transclude correctly without a leading space (the first transcludes as "Governor", the second doesn't transclude). (FWIW, as an alternative to M-le-mot-dit's solution of putting a comment into the first <ref>, on another page I put a dummy ref-follow in the footer with {{nop}} in it, but both of these give the leading space.) Arcorann (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Arcorann,@Beeswaxcandle,@M-le-mot-dit,@Xover Thanks all for the suggestions. M-le-mot-dit's seemed to work, a comment in the leading reference tag didn't create a leading space on the transcluded page, without having to move any text. Tempted to call it perfect and pragmatic. Although I never said I was chasing a perfect solution, moving text can be an unnecessary complication, but all sorted now at any rate. Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Only a small chance this suggestion is useful, but here goes. For a different purpose (and if I recall correctly with the guidance of Billinghurst), I used a different method of creating notes in History of Oregon Newspapers/The Pioneer Period. (I'm not done, but the first 68 notes follow this format.) It's pretty fiddly and I can't say I fully get how it works, but if you follow the example of those pages you should be able to figure it out. Whether it's worth your time or not, I'm not sure :) I believe that code is intended for a case like I used it in (endnotes on a different page), and I have a hunch there might be a way to adapt it to your use case (though it might involve reworking the entire book). -Pete (talk) 06:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Abuse filter

Could someone explain why this filter is triggered when creating pages in Main ns? E.g. this edit? Thanks, Mpaa (talk) 20:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Mpaa: It's looking for id="headerContainer" in the HTML output of the parsed page, and {{header}} et al are no longer outputting that id. I've now changed it to look for the common class name (ws-header) instead, so it should no longer be tagging edits like that. Xover (talk) 20:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Xover Thanks Mpaa (talk) 20:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Redirect an author page

I would like to redirect Author:Armitage Trail to Author:Maurice R. Coons, because Trail is a pen name. How can I do that? This is for the book Scarface, which I just finished validating. -- FPTI (talk) 06:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@FPTI: You follow the red link, delete the pre-filled content of the text box (the author template), go to the Advanced section of the editor toolbar, pick the button with the icon of an arrow swooping down and to the right, and then fill in the destination page. OR, you can simply type in #REDIRECT [[Author:Maurice R. Coons]]. Xover (talk) 06:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Apparent 'overloading' of Template:RunningHeader

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&ns100=1&ns102=1&ns104=1&ns106=1&ns114=1&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7B%5C%7B%28rh%7Crunningheader%29%5C%7C%5C%7C%5C%3Cmath%2F

I updated {{MathForm2}} and these uses should be migrated over, using |talign=end or suitable equivalent to obtain the same rendering as the RH approach.

The objective desired is to de overload uses RunningHeader, so that pending changes to it are potentially easier to do without unexpected side effects. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I have no idea what it is that you're saying here. Quite possibly that's just me being dumb, but could you try explaining again with a little more detail; especially as regards what is the problem that exists now, and what is the outcome you're looking for? Xover (talk) 11:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

The current problem is that RunningHeader is used in some works for formatting a three-cell table, or even more specfic an equation+number format. (something it wasn't technically designed for.).

The desired objective is replacing these usages with something more appropriate ( I'd updated {{MathForm1}} and {{MathForm2}} as they were intended for the use case concerned ).

An example replacement:-

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Aerial_Flight_-_Volume_1_-_Aerodynamics_-_Frederick_Lanchester_-_1906.djvu/147&diff=prev&oldid=14147459

I can work through these slowly but would appreciate a joint effort.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 And then there is {{Numb form}}, and then there is .... I think these template are known by 0.1% of the users and used by 0.01%. I would like to see pro/cons of the different solutions before spreading templates. I think we already have enough. Less templates and more general-purpose is the way to go IMHO. Mpaa (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

So which one should I be converting to? I am more than happy to standardise on ONE usage across a work or works. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:45, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

As I said, I do not know. So for now I would not do anything.

It seems to me that rh is the more natural choice for a user, it is short, written as the text flows, anybody is familiar with it, etc.

This syntax is verbose and not intuitive: {{MathForm2|talign=end|2=<math>x = \frac{3}{4} \times \frac{\cos \beta}{4 + \pi \sin \beta} \times l ,</math>|1=(2)}} and I do not know if that template is a good implementation or not. Mpaa (talk) 08:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

For whatever that's worth, I have on my todo list to look into {{MathForm1}} and {{MathForm2}} and {{Numb form}} and {{disp right}} as well as the several other templates that are used for this kind of thing, with a view to finding one sensible replacement for all of them. {{numbered equation}} is a very embryonic first draft of an approach to explore what would work well (not a proposed solution/replacement; just a start at figuring out what the replacement should look like). And hopefully we can usefully abstract out some of the generic parts of {{rh}} to reuse for this and a couple of other use cases (quoted letters with salutations and dates, signatures, etc.). Xover (talk) 09:10, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

These are some possible uses of Running Header outside of Page namespace that should be taken into consideration:-

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns102=1&ns103=1&ns106=1&ns107=1&ns114=1&ns115=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7B%5C%7B%28rh%7Crf%7Crunningheader%7Crunning+header%29%2F

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Help is asked for with a CSS selector

I am trying to configure my User:Ineuw/vector.css to view the main namespace text with the following selector, and I am unable to get it right. Can someone in the know, help me with this?

/* main namespace page */
#mw-page-base #bodyContent{
	font-family:FreeSerif !important;
	font-size: large !important;
}

— ineuw (talk) 18:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

FreeSerif is a great font, you have good taste.

Adding a comma in between the two ID selectors should get it to work, but in all namespaces. I'm not sure how to select for a specific namespace. Cremastra (talk) 21:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@user:Cremastra Thanks for the help, but like you said it affects everything. I tried every selector of the main namespace just to target the page content. I am now trying other selectors. — ineuw (talk) 07:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that ws-page-container is only in Main. This should target only the pages tag. (In the page namespace, it's prp-page-container instead). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 10:50, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@user:Alien333, Hurrah, and thank you! It is as I hoped. Interestingly my vector.css uses .mw-editform for page namespace selectors and not .prp-page-container. — ineuw (talk) 20:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if this is what you were wondering, but prp-page-container is for viewing (in page ns, next to the image and all) and mw-editform is for editing (in all namespaces). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 20:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is exactly what I wanted to understand. I must return to the Wikimedia kindergarten. Thanks again.

Transcluding a work - index has quotes in the page name

I was trying to transclude Index:"Red"·Fed·Memoirs-Hickey-1925.pdf.

I get an "Error: No such index" when I try. I think that is because of the quotes as part of the index page name.

Is there a way to transclude it as it is, or is something else required, such as renaming the index. David Nind (talk) 00:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Quote it in single quotes: index='"Red"·Fed·Memoirs-Hickey-1925.pdf' MarkLSteadman (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

That worked! Thank you, very much appreciated! David Nind (talk) 02:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

If you ever have to transclude an index whose name has both single and double quotes, you can replace the quotes in the name with " or ' as appropriate. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 20:07, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Pages on ProofreadPage look bad, pages in PDF look fine

The index in question is Index:The Hindu-Arabic numerals (IA hinduarabicnumer00smitrich).pdf; sample at Page:The Hindu-Arabic numerals (IA hinduarabicnumer00smitrich).pdf/14. For some reason the page images look terrible, but when I download the PDF it looks fine, how do we get better images? Arcorann (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Now compare Page:The Hindu-Arabic Numerals (1911).djvu/14. It's a combination of IA over-compressing their PDFs, MediaWiki generally doing much worse on extracting images and text layer from PDFs, and MediaWiki having pathologically bad image quality results on some PDFs. The bottom line is: always use DjVu if at all possible. Xover (talk) 05:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I lost a bit of confidence in DjVu after seeing the DjVu compression corrupt a scan, but this one seems fine (haven't checked in detail). Arcorann (talk) 12:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

That was a single pathological case brought on by waay too aggressive compression settings and over-optimization. There is a general problem with PDFs (as above), and combined with some other issues with the format and tooling I strongly recommend preferring DjVu whenever possible. Xover (talk) 18:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this. DJVU is also an open format, and though they admittedly might not be all that user friendly, there are more/better free tools available for manipulating them. -Pete (talk) 20:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Help with Score extension

There are a couple things I'm not sure how to do for Page:The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, Volume 10.djvu/139. First, is there a way to use straight quotes in lyrics (to match the style of the rest of the work)? Second, how can I display the D.S. al fine in "The Fair Flower of Northumberland"? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 16:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

For the first you can escape the quotes. e.g.` "\"Oh," whare are ye "gaun,\"" ` MarkLSteadman (talk) 17:11, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 17:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

For the latter, look up Dal Segno in the Lillypond manual. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, version 2.22 doesn't seem to have anything for dal segno, so I may need to wait until we're using version 2.25. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 17:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

We will never have version 2.25. The odd numbered versions are the experimental ones. It will be version 2.26. In the meantime we need to use the Rehearsal Mark technique, which doesn't replicate in the midi file. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I'd think we could get the repeat in the MIDI file by adding a repeat and overriding the bars so they don't display, but just adding \bar "|" before the repeat doesn't seem to override the ".|:" bar. Do you know if that can be done with some more complicated syntax? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 21:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Some questions

1. JS scripts seem to be imported (or executed) in a inconsistent order, which, when multiple scripts add sidebar buttons, causes fumbling every time to find where exactly this time are the buttons. Is there a way to change that?
2. For poems, it can be hard to determine if there is or not a stanza break on a page break, when there is: a) no clear stanza pattern, b) no special tendency for stanzas to end with sentences, and c) no other edition of the same poem. The first two tend to disappear for more modern poetry and the third is rarely available (and disputable anyway). Is there another way to find it?
3. Policy says to always implement footnotes and endnotes with ref tags (or something to that effect). Often, footnotes use asterisks and I couldn't find a way to make ref use them. It could be done by manually putting an anchor on the footnote, and a link to the anchor, and transcluding the two separately, but it's quite a bother. Someone probably has encountered the same issue before, so there must be a better way to do it lurking around somewhere.

Thanks, — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 13:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

For (2), you have to use your best judgment; there's no way around that. I face the same issue in poetic dramas I've transcribed. The points you've listed are the same ones I use to make that call when it's unclear. The fact that you're giving it thought and attention is what's most important.

With regard to (3), we do not attempt to reproduce the symbols used for footnotes / endnotes in the original copy, for multiple reasons. If you hunt around, there have been several essays written on the subject over the years. Simply let the software generate a number. from the ref tags, and don't spend time fretting over the displayed number versus an asterisk. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Just wanted to mention that large numbers of references all marked identically with * isn't a good UX, considering the way we transclude entire chapters as flowing text with the notes at the end, typically. For situations like see Note * on page ... it is possible to link etc. MarkLSteadman (talk) 17:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Regarding #1, the short answer is no. There is a longer answer involving using custom events to chain them or manually coordinating menu position, but they're not good solutions. Xover (talk) 17:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)