Transcribed Interview of Mark Meadows, (December 8, 2021)

by Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol

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SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE

JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL,

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

 

DEPOSITION OF:MARK MEADOWS (NO-SHOW)

 

Wednesday, December 8, 2021

Washington, D.C.

 

The deposition in the above matter was held in Room 4480, O'Neill House Office Building, commencing at 10:00 a.m.

Present: Representatives Schiff and Lofgren.

Appearances:

 

For the SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE

THE JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL:

 

 , CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

 , SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

 , CHIEF CLERK

 , PARLIAMENTARIAN

  All right. It's 10 a.m. So we'll go ahead and get started going on the record.

This is a deposition of Mark Meadows, conducted by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, pursuant to House Resolution 503.

My name is  . That's  , and I'm the chief investigative counsel to the select committee. With me today are  , who is a senior investigative counsel, and Ms. Zoe Lofgren, who is a member of the select committee, is also participating remotely.

Based on an agreement with counsel to Mr. Meadows, this deposition was to begin at 10 a.m. It is now 10 a.m., and Mr. Meadows has not appeared.

Mr. Meadows received a subpoena, dated September 23rd, 2021, requiring him to produce documents to the select committee and appear for a deposition. Staff engaged in several discussions with Mr. Meadows' counsel regarding the scope of his production and the subject matters to be developed at his deposition.

Staff provided Mr. Meadows' counsel with specific areas in which it is interested and asked Mr. Meadows to identify those that would trigger a privilege assertion. Rather than engage with the select committee, Mr. Meadows asserted that, as a former White House chief of staff, he cannot be compelled to provide information to Congress. He communicated his blanket assertion of immunity, in addition to claims of executive privilege, in writing to Chairman Thompson.

On November 12th, 2021, the select committee convened the scheduled deposition of Mr. Meadows after the current White House indicated, in writing, that President Biden would not assert any immunity or privilege that would prevent Mr. Meadows from appearing and answering the committee's questions.

Mr. Meadows did not appear for that deposition on November 12th, as indicated in his prior correspondence.

He also failed to produce any documents responsive to the select committee's subpoena or a privilege log asserting claims of privilege for specific documents.

After Mr. Meadows failed to appear for his deposition or produce documents, select committee staff engaged in further discussions with Mr. Meadows' counsel regarding the status of his noncooperation.

Mr. Meadows ultimately agreed to produce some documents and to appear for a deposition today, December 8th, 2021, at 10 a.m., an offer which the chairman extended to him as a good-faith effort to enable Mr. Meadows to cure his failure to comply with the September 23rd subpoena and provide information relevant to the select committee's investigation.

Mr. Meadows has now produced documents. Counsel made clear that Mr. Meadows intended to withhold some responsive information due to a claim of executive privilege. He agreed to produce documents he believes are not covered by that or any other privilege and to produce a privilege log identifying responsive documents withheld due to such privilege assertions.

He also agreed to appear for a deposition, at which he would be asked questions on subject matters relevant to the select committee's inquiry, as identified in our prior correspondence, and either answer the questions or articulate a claimed privilege.

We agreed with Mr. Meadows' counsel that this production and deposition would clarify Mr. Meadows' position on the application of various privileges and create a record for further discussion and consideration of possible enforcement by the select committee.

Consistent with that agreement, Mr. Meadows did produce documents and privilege logs. More specifically, he produced approximately 6,600 pages of records taken from personal email accounts he used to conduct official business, as well as a privilege log describing other emails over which he claims privilege protection. He also produced approximately 2,000 text messages, which Mr. Meadows sent or received using a personal device which he used for official business, in addition to a privilege log, in which he describes privilege claims over other withheld text messages.

Mr. Meadows was scheduled to appear today, December 8th, 2021, for a deposition. However, he has not appeared and is not present today. We received correspondence from Mr. Meadows' attorney yesterday indicating that, despite his prior agreement to appear today, his position has changed and he would not appear.

We are disappointed in Mr. Meadows' failure to appear as planned, as it deprives the select committee of an opportunity to develop relevant information in Mr. Meadows' possession and to, more specifically, understand the contours of his executive privilege claim.

Again, the purpose of today's proceeding was to ask Mr. Meadows questions that we believe would be outside of any cognizable claim of executive, attorney client, Fifth Amendment, or other potentially applicable privilege.

Our hope is that he would answer those questions, which would materially advance the select committee's investigation, given Mr. Meadows' service as White House chief of staff. We expected that he would assert privileges in response to various questions, articulating the specific privilege he believes is implicated and how it applies to the question asked. We planned to evaluate Mr. Meadows' privilege assertions after today's proceeding, engage in further discussions with Mr. Meadows' counsel, and consider whether enforcement steps were appropriate and necessary.

Mr. Meadows' failure to appear for today's deposition deprives us of the opportunity to engage in that process. Instead, we are left with Mr. Meadows' complete refusal to appear for his deposition or cure his willful noncompliance with the select committee's subpoena.

Had Mr. Meadows appeared for his deposition today, we would have asked him a series of questions about subjects that we believe are well outside of any claim of executive privilege. More specifically, we would have asked Mr. Meadows questions about his use of personal email and cellular phones.

Mr. Meadows' document production includes documents taken from two Gmail accounts. We would've asked him how and for what purpose he used those Gmail accounts and when he used one of them as opposed to his official White House email account. We would've similarly asked him about his use of a personal cellular telephone.

We would have sought to develop information about when Mr. Meadows used his personal cell phone for calls and text messages and when he used his official White House cell phone for those purposes.

Mr. Meadows' production of documents shows that he used the Gmail accounts and his personal cellular phone for official business related to his service as White House chief of staff. Given that fact, we would ask Mr. Meadows about his efforts to preserve those documents and provide them to the National Archives, as required by the Presidential Records Act. Finally, we would have asked Mr. Meadows about his use of a signal account, which is reflected in the text messages he produced.

In addition, we would have asked Mr. Meadows about particular emails that he produced to the select committee. We do not believe these emails implicate any valid claim of executive or other privilege, given that Mr. Meadows has produced the emails to the select committee.

Specifically, we would've asked Mr. Meadows about emails about the Electoral Count Act and the prospect of State legislators sending alternate slates of electors to Congress, including a November 7th, 2020, email with attachments. We would've asked him about emails reflecting the Trump campaign's effort to challenge election results, including a December 23rd email from Mr. Meadows indicating that, quote, "Rudy was put in charge. That was the President's decision," end quote, that reflects a direct communication between Mr. Meadows and the President.

We would've asked him about emails from Mr. Meadows to leadership at the Department of Justice on December 29th and 30th, 2020, and January 1st, 2021, encouraging investigations of suspected voter fraud, including claims that had been previously rebutted by State and Federal investigators and rejected by Federal courts.

We would have asked Mr. Meadows about emails regarding the deployment of the National Guard on January 6th, including a January 5th email from Mr. Meadows in which he indicates that the Guard would be present at the Capitol to, quote, "protect pro-Trump people," end quote.

In addition, we would have asked Mr. Meadows about specific text messages he sent or received that he has produced to the select committee. Given Mr. Meadows' production of these text messages to the select committee, they do not, in our view, implicate any valid claim of executive or other privilege.

We would've specifically asked Mr. Meadows about text messages regarding efforts to encourage Republican legislators in certain States to send alternate slates of electors to Congress, including a message sent by Mr. Meadows on December 8th, 2020, in which Mr. Meadows said, quote, "We are," end quote, and another text from Mr. Meadows to someone else in which he said that, quote, "We have a team on it," end quote.

We would have asked Mr. Meadows about text messages sent to and from Members of Congress, including text messages received from a Member of Congress in November of 2020 regarding efforts to contact State legislators because, as Mr. Meadows indicates in his text messages, quote, "POTUS wants to chat with them," end quote, which reflects a direct communication with the President, as well as texts in December of 2020 regarding the prospect of the President's appointment of Jeffrey Clark as Acting Attorney General.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about text messages sent to and from another Member of Congress in November of 2020, in which the member indicates that, quote, the President asked him to call Governor Ducey, end quote, and in which Mr. Meadows asks for contact information for the attorney general of Arizona to discuss allegations of election fraud.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about text messages sent to and received from Members of the House of Representatives and the Senate about objections to the certification of electors in certain States on January 6th. We would have asked him about text messages sent to and received from a Senator regarding the Vice President's power to reject electors, including a text in which Mr. Meadows recounts a direct communication with President Trump who, according to Mr. Meadows in his text messages, quote, "thinks the legislators have the power, but the VP has power too," end quote.

We would have asked Mr. Meadows about text messages sent to and received from a media personality on December 12th, 2021, regarding the negative impact of President Trump's election challenges on the Senate runoff elections in Georgia, President Trump's prospects for election in 2024, and Mr. Meadows possible employment by a news channel.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about text messages sent to and received from an organizer of the January 6th events on the Ellipse about planning the event, including details about who would speak at the event and where certain individuals would be located.

We'd ask Mr. Meadows about text messages regarding President Trump's January 2nd, 2021, phone call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, including texts to and from participants in the call as it took place, as well as text messages to and received from Members of Congress after the call took place regarding strategy for dealing with criticism of the call.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about text messages exchanged with various individuals, including Members of Congress, on January 6th, both before, during, and after the attack on the United States Capitol, including text messages encouraging Mr. Meadows to facilitate a statement by President Trump discouraging violence at the Capitol on January 6th, including a text exchange with a media personality who had encouraged the Presidential statement asking people to, quote, "peacefully leave the Capitol," end quote, as well as a text sent to one of—by one of the President's family members indicating that Mr. Meadows is, quote, "pushing hard," end quote, for a statement from President Trump to, quote, "condemn this shit," end quote, happening at the Capitol.

Text messages: We would ask Mr. Meadows questions about text messages reflecting Mr. Meadows' skepticism about public statements regarding allegations of election fraud put forth by Sidney Powell and his skepticism about the veracity of claims of tampering with Dominion voting machines.

In addition, we would've asked Mr. Meadows questions about specific representations in a book he has authored, "The Chief's Chief," in which he recounts various facts relevant to the select committee's investigation and directly describes communications with the President, including on page 259, quote, "A few sentences later, President Trump ad libbed a line that no one had seen before, saying, 'Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we're going to walk down—and I'll be there with you—we're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave Senators and Congressmen and women. We're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength. You have to be strong.' When he got off stage, President Trump let me know that he had been speaking metaphorically about the walk to the Capitol. He knew as well as anyone that we wouldn't organize a trip like that on such short notice," end quote.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about another passage in his book that appears on page 261. Quote, "In the aftermath of the attack, President Trump was mortified. He knew the media would take this terrible incident and twist it around. He also knew his days on Twitter were probably numbered," end quote.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about another passage on page 261 in his book. Quote, "'Mark,' Trump would say to me, 'Look, if I lost, I'd have no problem admitting it. I would sit back and retire and probably have a much easier life, but I didn't lose. People need me to get back to work. We're not done yet,"' end quote.

We would've asked Mr. Meadows about another passage in his book on page 264 that reflects, quote, "On January 20th, with less than 5 hours left in his historic Presidency, at a time when most outgoing Presidents would be quietly making notes for their memoirs and taking stock of their time in the White House, President Trump was being forced to defend his legacy yet again. 'How do we look in Congress,' President Trump asked? 'I've heard that there are some Republicans who might be turning against us. That would be a very unwise thing for them to do,"' end quote.

We would've asked him about another passage on page 265 of his book. Quote, "But I assured President Trump, once again, that all would be well with the impeachment trial, and we discussed what my role in the proceedings would be after we left the White House," end quote.

We would've asked him about the passage on page 266 in his book where he recounts, quote, "On the phone on January 20th, President Trump spoke as if he wasn't planning to go anywhere. He mentioned the long list of pardons we hadn't been able to complete largely due to the slowness on the part of various attorneys in the Federal Government. He wondered again about the precise details of the impeachment trial, including how much money the new lawyers would charge and how we could best defend him against the Democrats' attacks," end quote.

These passages reflect direct communications between Mr. Meadows and President Trump directly impacting his claims of executive privilege.

Finally, we would ask Mr. Meadows questions about statements in his book about his interactions with the Department of Justice. Specifically, he addresses such interactions with the Department of Justice on pages 257 and 258 of his book, in which he says, quote, "It didn't surprise me that our many referrals to the Department of Justice were not seriously investigated. I never believed they would, given the track record of that Department in President Trump's first term," end quote.

Again, statements in Mr. Meadows' book directly reflect subject matters that the select committee seeks to develop, and his public statements directly impact his claims of executive privilege.

But, as of the current time, which is now 10:17, Mr. Meadows still has not appeared to cure his earlier noncompliance with the select committee's September 23rd, 2021, subpoena. So we will not be able to ask any of those questions about the documents and messages that he apparently agrees are relevant to the select committee and not protected by any protective privilege.

I'd also note for the record that Congressman Adam Schiff, a member of the select committee, has joined and, again, that member of the committee, Representative Lofgren, has joined.

Before we close the record, Mr. Schiff or Ms. Lofgren, do either of you have any comments to make for the record?

Mr. Schiff. I do not. Thank you.

  Ms. Lofgren, anything?

Ms. Lofgren. I'm good.

  Okay. Thank you.

Accordingly, the record of this deposition of Mark Meadows, now at 10:18 a.m., is closed.

[Whereupon, at 10:18 a.m., the deposition was concluded.]